The Tangerine Tiger Series with Russ Sadler
In this Series, Russ has purchased a new 500 x 300mm, 50W laser machine from eBay with a view to modifying and upgrading it. In fact, he rips out the glass laser tube and high voltage power supply and replaces them with an RF laser source and PSU from Cloudray. Find out how the expensive RF laser source compares to a glass CO2 laser tube and prepare to get your hands dirty! So lets investigate this RF And Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison.
If you are considering purchasing a CO2 laser machine with an RF laser source from one of the big boy suppliers, I would suggest you check out this series before making a decision!
Contents
Thinking that my RF laser was just 20 watts (with a bit of extra power for warranty purposes) I was surprised by the initial cutting tests on 3mm Baltic birch plywood. Perhaps there was something “magical” about the cutting power of an RF tube after all!!!!. Were the “big companies” marketing claims correct after all? The truth was required. In this session I set about comparing an RF tube and a glass tube running at exactly the same watts and with the exact same test conditions. Let’s see if I am confirming facts or shooting down myths.
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Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison
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0:00welcome to another session with my
0:02little tangerine tiger here
0:04um hey look i’m matching
0:07we’re clashing um
0:10it’s a bit cooler now the autumn is here
0:13and um
0:15we haven’t quite reached steam point in
0:19here but it’s pretty cool in this
0:20unheated workshop
0:21now when i woke up this morning i had
0:24planned to
0:26make this session all about grayscale
0:30and maybe grayscale photo engraving
0:33and grayscale 3d engraving
0:36but something has been puzzling me
0:41and that is the apparent power
0:45that we’ve got from 20 watts in this
0:47machine to cut materials
0:49more efficiently than i thought was
0:51possible
0:53so i want to try and investigate that
0:56surprise condition
0:58by doing some comparisons of cutting
1:01between
1:01this machine and my 70 watt
1:04glass tube machine now i’m sure that’s
1:07something that will interest not only me
1:09but many other people as well
1:11because the people have gas machines
1:13don’t normally have rf machines
1:15and the people that rf machines are
1:17definitely
1:18about glass tube machines so they’re not
1:21going to do the comparison
1:22so there’s only one person around it’s
1:24likely to do that comparison and that’s
1:26probably me
1:27so let’s get on and see what we can find
1:31because
1:31i’m puzzled at the moment now we’re
1:34going to start off here
1:36on the light blade machine although this
1:38is a 70 watt two i’m only running it
1:40with a 60 watt power supply so it’s not
1:42going to be delivering
1:44full power i’m running at about 95
1:48and it’s still only delivering it’s only
1:50still only consuming about 20
1:52uh 20 milliamps which probably means
1:56it’s working closer to
1:5765 ish watts
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
2:01so the first thing we’ll do is take a
2:03look at
2:04what the power is that’s coming out of
2:05here now i’ve got a little bowl of water
2:07here to absorb
2:08the energy so we’re going to start off
2:09with the temperature of 15.3
2:48and we’re finishing up at 50.8
2:53so very simply 50.8
2:57minus what we started with which is 15.3
3:0015.3 equals
3:04times two equals
3:0771 watts doing better than i thought
3:10so i’ve got 71 watts
3:16at my lens so here we’ve just got a
3:18simple piece of masking tape which we’re
3:19going to put over
3:21that hole there i’ve got my
3:24pulse power set to 95
3:2771 watts exactly the same as what we’ve
3:30just tested
3:33so now what i’m going to try and do is
3:35to burn a hole
3:37in there and i’m going to hold the beam
3:39on for long enough
3:41to find out what size the beam actually
3:45is because when i
3:46press just a simple pulse
3:49whoops let’s move it to the right place
3:59that might be better okay
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
4:09you can see that it produces a very
4:13a very intense power immediately and
4:16caught fire at the tape but that’s not
4:17what i want
4:18i’m now going to gently press the pulse
4:20button and you’ll see what happens to
4:22the tape i’m just pressing it and
4:29i don’t want it to burn too far with
4:31those little scorch marks
4:37and they’re going to hold the beam on
4:38longer
4:40oh look what’s happening and longer
4:46and longer
5:08[Music]
5:10so i think that’s probably enough
5:13and that tells us what size the beam
5:15actually is
5:16i think we’ll probably call that
5:1913 and a half should we let’s be
5:21generous
5:22so we check the power of the beam we
5:25check the size of the beam
5:28let’s see if we can find out what the
5:31mode
5:31burn for the beam looks like see if i
5:34can get that lined up
5:35naught one two
5:39three four five
5:42six seven eight
5:45nine ten now just look at that isn’t
5:49that beautiful
5:51that’s just about the perfect mode bird
5:55a lovely conical shape like that with a
5:57very very sharp point
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
6:01now that’s what a real tube should look
6:02like
6:05okay now it doesn’t show on the end here
6:07you can see
6:08some of the low power stuff but it’s got
6:11a very high energy core as you can see
6:14so there’s our starting temperature 14.8
6:31with that
6:3632.3
6:38minus 14.8 14.8
6:42equals times two
6:47equals 35 watts
6:50wow
6:54i i really can’t believe that this is a
6:5620 watt unit it looks as though it must
6:58be a 30 watt unit
7:02so anyway so we’ve got 35 watts
7:14here
7:27i’m now going to hold it on longer
7:37[Music]
7:40and that’s about as much as i think i
7:41can get so don’t take the worst case
7:43shall we which is across there
7:49that’s about 10 millimeters so there’s
7:52our comparison
7:55so we’ll give this one a 10 second mode
7:56burn as well
8:00one two three
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
8:03four five six
8:06seven eight nine
8:10ten weird lump there at about seven
8:12o’clock
8:14and it’s not loud definitely not the
8:16best beam i’ve ever seen
8:17there’s our comparison should i set the
8:21other tube to 35 watts as well
8:24okay well i’ve just done some quick
8:25tests on this machine
8:27and what i found was if i set this to 38
8:29this machine
8:30i get 34.6 watts so that’s
8:34pretty close to 35 watts that we’re
8:35getting off the other machine
8:37so the first thing we really ought to do
8:39having done the wattage test
8:42is to see how that’s affected the beam
8:45diamond well it’s a lovely round theme
8:46[Music]
8:53just wait for the little glows to stop
8:59and i’ll hold it on
9:06on
9:10off and it doesn’t want to grow anymore
9:14so that is lovely isn’t it so that’s
9:16about seven millimeters diamond
9:19not one two
9:22three four five
9:26six seven eight
9:29nine ten but i think you can probably
9:32see it’s a lot cleaner
9:33this is a reasonably good test of power
9:37because the penetration goes into
9:39approximately the same depth
9:40okay so we’ve got our basic standards
9:42set up now look for comparison
9:45we’re going to use this two and a half
9:48inch
9:49plano convex lens now i like plano
9:52convex lenses because
9:54they have a weakness and that is right
9:56down the center
9:58as you go through the axis of the lens
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
10:01it’s terribly out of focus which i think
10:04is excellent for cutting
10:06and that’s what we’re going to try and
10:07do with this machine now we’re going to
10:08do one or two cutting tests
10:09at 35 watts so this lens
10:13cuts well at five millimeters so here
10:16we’ve got a piece of five millimeter
10:18extruded acrylic so i’ve got this set
10:22to eight millimeters a second and 38
10:25percent power
10:26so all these tests will be done at 38
10:28power exactly the same as the other
10:30machine the good news is
10:32the smoke is coming out the bottom we
10:34now do nine millimeters a second
10:39and the smoke is coming out underneath
10:40the game as you can see
10:46so let’s try 10 millimeters a second
10:48smoke still coming out underneath
10:52and that is just going to pop out
10:53[Music]
10:57just a little hang up but nothing
10:59terrible
11:00it’s probably just a corner not quite
11:02making it
11:04so let’s try 11 millimeters
11:08i don’t think i should be able to press
11:09that out no we have to regard that as a
11:11failure
11:12so here we are our samples eight nine
11:14and ten millimeters a second
11:16so we’ll take exactly the same lens
11:20and lens tube and we’ll transfer that
11:22onto the other machine
11:23along with this material so the whole
11:27assembly
11:28is exactly the same going on to the
11:30other machine
11:35let that drop onto the five millimeter
11:36step there
11:44i’m gonna start this one off at seven
11:45millimeters a second
11:47but technically it should do it because
11:50the beams look the same
11:51the power is the same i’m now going to
11:54run this at 100 power
11:57it doesn’t matter what the frequency is
11:59because i’ve got no
12:00time base involved it’s just running
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
12:02continuously
12:04well we’ve got smoke coming out the
12:05bottom
12:09and it’s fallen out as you can see eight
12:13yeah and to cut
12:16nine millimeters a second
12:21still working oh
12:26and just about managed to
12:30push that one out nine millimeters a
12:33second
12:35right on the edge of being okay it’s
12:38pretty poor at the bottom of the cut
12:40we’ll carry on
12:42we’ll try 10 okay it appears to be
12:45blowing out the bottom
12:50but
12:52no no wait i can’t push that
12:57there we go
13:01there is no surprise
13:04this is the rf machine seven eight nine
13:07millimeters a second
13:09here’s the glass tube machine eight nine
13:12ten
13:13okay so it went a little bit better it’s
13:16a small difference
13:17the essence of it is there is no magic
13:20in this machine
13:21what is what’s you cut with what’s
13:26you don’t cut with hype or marketing
13:29speak
13:31you’ve seen it firsthand now
13:34comparison like with like so why would
13:37you spend a lot of money on a machine
13:39that can’t do cutting any different or
13:40better
13:41than the cheap chinese machine you’d
13:43probably better to
13:45buy two machines what keep one of them
13:47for cutting and the other one for
13:48engraving
13:49if that’s what turns out to be i’ve used
13:52acrylic
13:52because acrylic is one of the most
13:54difficult materials to cut you would
13:56think that because
13:57acrylic turns to liquid
14:00at 160 degrees c and then evaporates
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
14:06into what you would imagine as a cut but
14:08it’s actually evaporation
14:10at 200 degrees c so there’s very little
14:12difference in that temperature
14:14and they’re both very low temperatures
14:16but
14:17the material doesn’t really want to
14:20accept co2 energy and so consequently
14:24it is quite difficult to heat up that’s
14:27why i’ve chosen this is a great material
14:28for testing
14:29but it’s also a difficult material to
14:32cut the claim
14:33i’ve heard that the rf does a superb job
14:38of cutting acrylic so we’ll compare the
14:40eight millimeter rf
14:42with the eight millimeter glass tube
14:44would you like to guess
14:45which one is which
14:51they’re both sitting under there
14:52together so you can do a direct
14:54comparison
14:54what i will tell you is this strange
14:56striation here
14:58is something that happens just as you’re
15:00running
15:01out of depth of cut this one is cutting
15:04through comfortably
15:06and you get this banding of striations
15:08which i’ve noticed before
15:10this is the rf2 you look at them in
15:13reality
15:14there isn’t a lot to choose between them
15:17neither of them are what i call flame
15:19polished okay now
15:21flame polishing an edge is not something
15:24that’s unique
15:26to any particular type of laser cutting
15:28machine
15:29flame polishing the smooth edge
15:32is all to do with the physics and the
15:34chemistry
15:36the chemistry of this material as i said
15:39at 160
15:41it turns to liquid at 200 it vaporizes
15:45we could run this remember at 10
15:46millimeters a second on this machine
15:48we’re going to run it at five
15:50millimeters a second to start with so i
15:51expect this piece to drop out
15:53because it’s cutting very slowly
15:55[Music]
15:57the great advantage of acrylic you can
15:58actually see what’s happening inside the
16:00cut
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
16:01but on this thinner material as i said
16:03we’re on a at five millimeters we’re on
16:05a balance point
16:07and i’m running here very very slowly at
16:10three millimeters a second as we run
16:13across the front of the cut here
16:15take a look just behind the cut
16:19no you can’t really see it
16:23basically two secrets which amount to
16:26the same thing
16:27when you understand what they are that
16:30are
16:30going to give you flame polishing or
16:34a nice clean edge
16:39one of them is running very slowly
16:42and the other is very very minimal air
16:46assist i’ve just got enough
16:47whisper of air on there to protect the
16:49lens
16:51now this is eight millimeter material
16:54the thicker the material the easier it
16:57is to get a polished edge
16:59but you have to run pretty slowly so i’m
17:01running this
17:02at five millimeters a second
17:05[Music]
17:14okay now if we look carefully you’ll
17:18find that it is very
17:19sticky there you go
17:23it’s come out cleanly but it is very
17:27sticky why
17:32i hope you can see there how i catch it
17:35in the light just right
17:40you can see it’s virtually striation
17:42free it’s a lovely
17:44polished finish let me do exactly the
17:47same thing
17:48but this time
17:52we’ll put the air on
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
18:02there we go it looks pretty good but
18:04when you look at the right hand edge
18:06[Music]
18:07can you see how serrated it is that’s
18:10not the bottom edge as it was before
18:11that’s the top edge this time
18:14and that’s because of the airflow over
18:16the top edge
18:17[Music]
18:20and i’ll explain to you why that is it’s
18:23pretty easy to get this quality edge
18:25on a piece of extruded acrylic but it’s
18:27much more difficult to get the same
18:29thing
18:29on cast acrylic cast acrylic is very
18:32difficult
18:33but the same principles apply you can do
18:35it but you have to run very slowly
18:38so as you’ve already seen there is no
18:40difference in the cut quality between
18:42these two
18:43processes one of them is
18:46continuous and the other one
18:50is also continuous to get maximum power
18:53out of the machine now regardless
18:56of whether you’ve got super smooth
18:58movement
18:59super smooth power it makes no
19:02difference at all to acrylic
19:04because it’s got a mind of its own there
19:06are two key properties
19:07of acrylic one of them is it turns
19:10liquid
19:14at 160 degrees c
19:18it then vaporizes at
19:21200 degrees c
19:25so that’s what happens when you cut it
19:28you’re not physically
19:29destroying it what you’re doing you’re
19:32turning into
19:33steam effectively if it was water and
19:36water is a very good
19:37analogy of what this material is look
19:40we’ve got a block of ice here okay it’s
19:42a block of ice at room temperature and
19:44then it turns to steam
19:45or vapour at 200 degrees c doesn’t
19:48change its chemical composition
19:51because if you condense that vapor onto
19:53a cool surface
19:54you can turn it back into solid this
19:56does not go through a
19:57chemical change like a piece of paper if
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
20:01you
20:01cut a piece of card paper or wood the
20:04fumes
20:04do not turn back into wood because that
20:06is a chemical
20:07composition change this is just a change
20:10of state
20:11initially until it turns into flames as
20:14you’ve seen
20:15and then when it turns into flames you
20:17get a chemical composition change
20:19these two phases are very important so
20:21when we start a cut
20:23and let’s have a piece of material here
20:24that we’re going to cut
20:28the first thing that happens is as we
20:30burn in somewhere
20:33with a hole but the time it gets through
20:35to the other side
20:37not only have we got
20:40not only have we got a thin hole that
20:42goes right the way through
20:44around the outside of that hole
20:48we’ve got vapor
20:53okay now light when it hits the surface
20:58has no cutting effect on the vapor
21:00itself all it does is to heat the vapor
21:02up
21:03further and sometimes turn it into
21:06flames
21:07because there’s a chemical composition
21:09change this little blue beam
21:11has to move forward
21:14until it passes through this
21:17vapor barrier that’s around the outside
21:20of the beam
21:21and only then can it start to cut again
21:24here and of course as soon as it starts
21:27to cut
21:29it produces a vapor barrier around
21:32itself
21:34and then it has to move on through that
21:36vapor barrier before it hits more
21:38solid material where it can start
21:40cutting again
21:41and so consequently what you’ll find is
21:43that you get these
21:47zones that are overlapping like this
21:51and hey what have we got here and here
21:55and here we’ve got striations
21:58they’re striations where the beam the
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
22:01intermittent
22:02cutting action of the beam is
22:04overlapping so that is
22:06why regardless of how you try and cut
22:08this stuff
22:09you will always get striations
22:12it’s a natural cutting property of
22:14acrylic
22:16okay so how come we managed to get
22:20a nice smooth edge on some of this
22:23material
22:24the answer is this property here
22:28let’s take a look at the material from a
22:30side view now
22:31which is what we’ve just been looking at
22:33on the video
22:35as the beam cuts
22:38like this through the material
22:44what happens is we’re evaporating the
22:47material away
22:49but if we can keep enough heat
22:52in the material itself what you’ll find
22:55is that this
22:56zone here maybe two millimeters
23:00three millimeters behind the cut itself
23:03is liquid
23:07on the surface until it drops below
23:11160 degrees c and what happens to liquid
23:15when you put it into a cup
23:17when you put it into anything it levels
23:19out
23:21so that is how you achieve a polished
23:24finish you try and retain the liquid
23:27phase
23:28of the acrylic long enough to allow it
23:32to
23:33level out and hide these striations
23:37and that’s what it’ll do but to do that
23:41you need a lot of heat a lot of energy
23:44so generally the thicker the material
23:47the more the heat gets retained in the
23:50cut
23:50because you’re running slower when you
23:53run slower
23:54you allow more heat to if you like
23:57percolate and seep away around the edge
24:00of the cut
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
24:01so if you pick up a piece of acrylic
24:04that’s mirror polished
24:05you’ll find that it’s actually if you
24:07put it on your lips you could
24:08burn your lips it will it will feel very
24:11very hot
24:13a slow cut to build the heat up in the
24:15cut to keep this liquid phase
24:17on the wall of the kerf it becomes maybe
24:21slightly more obvious why i turned the
24:23air off
24:25if we get air passing through here air
24:28is cool
24:29and it will cool this liquid phase down
24:32much quicker and prevent it happening
24:33now we produced
24:34as you saw we produced two samples one
24:37with airflow
24:38and one without airflow i’m going to
24:41show you those under the microscope now
24:43now you can’t really see much of this
24:44one because this is the mirror polished
24:46one
24:47this is the one that was done very
24:48slowly with no air when we looked at the
24:50previous pictures here
24:52the rf was on the left hand side here
24:55and the glass tube was on the right hand
24:57side
24:58and the rf tube had all this debris
25:02i described it to you where the cut was
25:04just about to fail
25:06going through the bottom where you get
25:07this ragged bottom
25:09okay this is not the bottom this is the
25:12top
25:13as you can see we’ve got a relatively
25:16smooth finish
25:18two thirds of the way through the cut
25:21but what we’ve got here
25:22is the effect of the air the air assist
25:26cooling that liquid phase right at the
25:30top of the cut
25:31and it’s turned into mush
25:35here’s the same thing without air assist
25:39we’ve got a nice clean mirror polish
25:42all the way down the cut i’m afraid you
25:46can’t believe
25:47the marketing hype which says you get a
25:49much better
25:50cut with an rf machine you don’t they’re
25:54the same thing
25:55once you start pulsing the cut you’re
25:58going to add striations into the cut
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
26:01and the only way you can get rid of
26:03those striations is to run
26:05slowly or with so much power that you’re
26:08heating the material around the edge of
26:09the kerf
26:10so you might be able to run faster if
26:12you’ve got an 80 watt machine but
26:14hey look i’ve got a 70 watt machine that
26:16i was doing these with
26:17i was running these at full power but i
26:19was still doing this eight millimeter
26:21stuff
26:22at what five millimeters a second
26:25i mean i would normally cut eight
26:27millimeter at maybe 12
26:29or 14 millimeters a second so i’ve had
26:31to go
26:32at least half speed to get enough heat
26:35into the job
26:36to produce the mirror polished finish
26:39it’s a property of the material
26:41and the chemistry of the material and
26:43nothing to do
26:44with the machine that produces the cut
26:47i think that’s been quite an interesting
26:49session i think it shows you that
26:52again we’re not finding anything
26:56dramatic that would make me go out and
26:58want to buy one of these expensive
27:00machines
27:04at the moment it’s doing exactly the
27:06same
27:07as a glass tube machine for cutting
27:10straightforward engraving
27:11i think we found that the switching
27:13speed the high speed switching
27:15is a definite positive advantage
27:19maybe but now that i understand how this
27:23machine works
27:25i’ve got half an idea about how i can
27:27make
27:29the glass tube machines work faster as
27:32well
27:33because we have got rf capability
27:37on those machines as well believe it or
27:39not
27:41it’s well hidden away but hey that’s
27:44something that we do
27:46after we’ve looked at all the things
27:47that this machine potentially can do
27:49grayscale engraving
27:50well that’s something we will take a
27:52look at next time as i promised
27:56whether it would be gray scale photo
27:58engraving
27:59i’m rather doubtful 3d engraving
Transcript for RF and Glass Tube Laser Cutting Comparison (Cont…)
28:02i’m much more positive about
28:04 [Music]
28:05 but it might take a long time because
28:07 we’ve only got 20 watts
28:09 i know that the glass tube can do some
28:11 pretty good 3d engraving
28:14 but then again i’ve got 70 watts to play
28:15 with i think i’m rapidly coming to the
28:17 conclusion that
28:19 i wouldn’t go out and spend my money on
28:20 an rf machine
28:22 it’s just not flexible enough for the
28:24 money you have to pay for it
28:27 the only thing that may persuade people
28:31 to go out and buy a machine like that
28:33 is the fact that they don’t have to
28:34 learn anything about the technology
28:37 all they have to learn is how to access
28:39 the menus
28:40 to get what they want because the
28:43 experience
28:44 and the knowledge has been built into
28:46 menus
28:47 you place your money and you takes your
28:50 pick
28:51 as somebody famous once said they were
28:54 so famous i can’t remember who they were
28:56 anyway on that lovely note i’m gonna
28:59 leave you now
29:00 and go and have a cup of coffee because
29:02 it’s pretty cold in here today
29:04 and i’ll catch up with you in the next
29:06 session bye for now
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Last updated August 26, 2021
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